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holy_sword
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PostSubject: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptySun Jun 14, 2009 12:47 pm

This is only my 2nd season following F1 and some of the off track stuff seems staged at times, however this FOTA/FIA war seems for real.

what do you think? breakaway series on the horizion?
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Liquidbruin
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyTue Jun 16, 2009 8:36 pm

I've been following F1 for over 30 years (keep the jokes to yourselves) and if you would have asked this question two weeks ago, I would have said it's the same old political bs that Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosely seem to thrive on creating. However, I've changed my opinion.

Since you've only been following F1 for a couple of years, a little background is probably prudent. There are three major players in F1. First, you have FOM which is Formula One Management and they own and control the commercial rights to F1. Second, you have the FIA which enforces the rules, monitors track, car and driver safety and represents the various motor sport groups from around the world. AAA in the US is the American firm that is part of the FIA organization. Third, you have the teams, now calling themselves FOTA, which is probably self explanatory. FOM is one of many subsidiary companies that are pretty much owned by Bernie Ecclestone and interestingly, those rights were given to FOM many years ago by the teams in efforts to solidify the teams position agains the FIA, who at the time was being accused of trying to dictate control of all aspects of how a team is run. Sound Familiar? Bernie effectively gets 50% of the income generated by F1. Yes, 50%! Even more interesting than that, Max Mosely at the time was attempting to start and run an F1 team after accusing the team he worked for previously of being incompetent and incapable. Max's team ran for several years, back in the time when there were more cars then spots on the grid and cars actually failed to qualify and went home! Needless to say, Max was a complete failure at running an F1 team. Max then joined forces with Bernie and the two of them went after Jean Ballestre, who was the current president of the FIA, accusing him of incompetence and trying to take control of F1 from the FIA. Again, sound familiar? In the end, Max and Bernie gathered enough support through politics for Max to run against Jean as president of the FIA. Max won. That's a quick overview but you can actually read a good explanation on wikipedia by doing a search for Max Mosely or Bernie Ecclestone.

Now the roles are reversed.

It's understandable that on first glance, the teams, or FOTA as they happen to be called now, seem to appear greedy. I don't think so. They're asking for 3 very simple and basic things. I'll be damned if they aren't pretty much the same things that were fought over years ago, now with Max running the FIA and playing the other role almost to the letter.


1. Stable rules without changes at the last minute, or refered to as "stable governance".
2. Team control of the cost cutting measures. It's their money so I agree, stay the fuck out of it. Of course, I know I'm in the minority today having the attitude of most Jarheads, the government or any other organization should stay the fuck out of peoples business. Government should be scared of the people, not the other way around.
3. Different allocation of the money generated by F1. In other words, don't let Bernie keep 50% anymore.

Not exactly demands that I would see as unreasonable.

Well, you have Max and Bernie, mostly Max, who have taken this more of a game of who's the boss versus what's good for F1. One of the teams that applied for a spot next year under the new rules but was not picked, said this exact thing the other day. Max only opened up the grid to half ass teams for political reasons, as pawns against the other teams. The whole thing is a joke.

I'm gonna stop here because this could go on for two days and the loss of my favorite sport next to college football just pisses me off and makes me pray for the day. In the end, Yes, I think this is very likely the end of F1. Neither side is going to back down at this point. The last few days have seen the FIA release some pretty inflammatory press releases. Pretty much saying they would kill their own children before they'll give up. At a minimum, I think it's the end of Ferrari, BWM, Toyota, Red Bull and probably Mclaren participating in F1. I absolutely think they WILL form a breakaway series or join other forms of racing. Ferrari swept the podium in the GT class at Le Mans last weekend and no doubt, BMW, Toyota and Mclaren could build some very sweet contenders. But, i think they'll start a different series that wont be hampered by the FIA restrictions and will become the new "Pinnacle of Motorsport". All but a handfull of drivers have already come out this past few weeks and said they'll go with the teams because you can call the sport whatever you want, but the cars and the technology will determine the "pinnacle of motorsport", not the name. On the bright side...silverstone is available for races starting next year, lucky timing for the guys that own silverstone....

In the end......Rest in Peace F1......cause it's already dead. It's just that nobody has the balls to say it.
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Liquidbruin
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyTue Jun 16, 2009 10:28 pm

More food for thought.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-le-mans-invites-formula-teams-to-switch/

By the way, add Imola, Magney-Cours, Montreal, Anywhere in the US to Silverstone as tracks available to a new series. In two years, add Spa, Catalunya, Monza and The Nurburgring to the list when their current money losing F1 contracts run out. Just like the US election...there's hope. This one is just real.
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bg-ai3
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2009 12:59 am

sweet Very Happy

all we have to do is pay a hooker to dance for mosley and slip some shit in his drink, he'll be gone, as for bernie, he will die soon, either dat or shitting in bag, cant run f1 like that,lol...all the money he makes goes to keeping his old ass alive for as long as he can.

i dont think any gp makes money anymore, look at turkey last race, there were like 10people in the stands, wtf...they want teams to spend less money, but it cost billions of dollars to host a race for consecutive seasons...its just crazy...yea i feel it wont get resolved as well, williams and force india need to stay with fota, and let formula one rot as we know it, they wont survive with the main attraction, Campos GrandPrix, not happening.

I read somewhere coca-cola was looking into sponsoring as well, that would be an good strong sponsorship for any breakaaway series FOTA makes, only question is what will they call the series. Friday is Supposedly the last deadline, so after that the FOTA teams can either start preparing for next season by themselves or look into other forms of racing.



my only gripe is if ferrari and mclaren were winning this season, would they still feel the same? or would they be fine with how things are shaping up....a part of it feels like sour apples that there arent fighting for podiums all of a sudden......freakin after 3races some teams started looking into next season.lol.

i feel under the current rules these would make FOTA happy

1. In season testing available
2. Spending Limit Raised to 150-200 million US dollars (roughly 100million euros or so) not including salaries of drivers or employees


i really dont think the new car is causing the problems, the in season testing is the key, becuz right now basically people are stuck with wat they developed before Melbourne, there is no way to make the car better. Friday Practice just isnt enough. So we are now stuck with Button winning probably 14-15 Races this season. Its now turning into a spec series which Grand Prix racing is not about.

All jokes aside, around august or september once Mosley realizes he will only have 5-6 teams, all which are small, relatively no name teams, Vettel is the only big name of the teams in 2010 entry list. something drastic will happen and they'll all of sudden try to get FOTA back, but it'll be too late.


Last edited by bg-ai3 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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bg-ai3
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2009 1:29 am

mistake, redbull is in Fota, so no vettel for FIA to market if FOTA breaks away,lol.
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holy_sword
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PostSubject: what about   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2009 2:52 am

CVC Capital Partners, they are really the backdrop to all this in my oppinion. Bruin u did a great job of connecting some of the missing pieces. Here is a post from another forum that sums it up best for me.


"CVC are paying £2mil/week interest on the loans they took to buy into Bernie’s empire. Someone somewhere is effectively holding a £2billion mortgage on the asset that is F1!

Meanwhile Max and Bernie appear to be trying everything to shoot the golden goose!

Max and the FIA are fine, F1 being just one small part of the whole thing.

Bernie would probably quite happily let the whole house of cards fall down, getting CVC and whoever is behind them off his back. He’s probably got enough cash stashed to remain comfortable for a couple of years and would take no blame for the collapse, pointing to the spat between FIA and FOTA.

The only losers would be CVC and their faceless backers. A few would wake up to horses’ heads as bed-mates!

FOTA could then get on and organise their own championship – might even get Bernie on board for his experience and contacts!

New F1 and without the huge debt to service, the organisers wouldn’t need to charge circuits stupid amounts then maybe Silverstone, Spa, Interlagos, etc. would start to look a whole lot better!

"

That's what I think.

This is why. I read this article when it was 1st printed and found it very interesting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/privateequity/2965733/CVC-in-pole-position-for-Lehman-Brothers-F1-stake.html
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bg-ai3
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2009 3:10 am

man thats deep...never heard of cvc before lol.
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Liquidbruin
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 17, 2009 8:01 am

Seriously, the whole thing could be fixed with a tag behind the ear from an M95

hmm, wonder what this will do for my die cast collection? I have Ferrari's that go for 400 a piece on ebay even in this crap economy. Wonder if they're gonna be worth more, or not worth the metal they're cast from...and before the Ferrari haters pipe in, I have a LH Mclaren from his rookie year too. I'm a whore when it comes to money and that car is gonna pay for my viagra some day.
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Liquidbruin
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyThu Jun 18, 2009 10:15 am

Well, on the eve of the british gp, looks like the groups are at least talking again, although Max just sounds like a broken record and says the same things over and over.

Watch out FOTA, Max keeps saying go ahead and sign up and we'll talk about the changes! Anybody sucker enough to fall for that? Here, just go ahead and buy the car, we'll talk about the financing, warranty and how well the car runs after you bought it.....yeah, only know a couple of people who would fall for that...two of em are here...lol.

Either way, I think more of my limited free time is about to be devoted to road racing sports car style. Rolex sports car and ILMS in particular.

And check this out....Chip Gannasi is entering a second car in the Daytona Rolex race on July 4th. Driven by Kyle Busch and Scott Speed! Get a load of that! That would be a cool day to be in Daytona....Rolex series in the morning/afternoon, then they're reconfiguring the track and having the Nascar race that afternoon/night. Hmmm, wonder the cost of a ticket?
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bg-ai3
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 24, 2009 12:13 pm

the boys finally decided to get along as long as max's ass got out of office after this year lol.

26 cars on grid next season.....but you gotta ask, will the new entries be ok? i mean they entered for the 40mill budget cap and now that has been thrown out for another 2 years..
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holy_sword
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jun 24, 2009 2:18 pm

Quote :
And check this out....Chip Gannasi is entering a second car in the Daytona Rolex race on July 4th. Driven by Kyle Busch and Scott Speed! Get a load of that! That would be a cool day to be in Daytona....Rolex series in the morning/afternoon, then they're reconfiguring the track and having the Nascar race that afternoon/night. Hmmm, wonder the cost of a ticket?


I watch two of the races from that series the Road Atlanta race and the 6 hours at the Glen (Watkins Glen) this is a very competitive series.
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Jeckz
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyThu Jun 25, 2009 6:14 pm

"The manufacturer teams have agreed to assist the new entries for 2010 by providing technical assistance"

The new teams should be fine since its the same rules of no testing, limited wind tunnel time, and the assistance of the other teams
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royleeiv
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyThu Jun 25, 2009 9:27 pm

bg-ai3 wrote:
the boys finally decided to get along as long as max's ass got out of office after this year lol.

26 cars on grid next season.....but you gotta ask, will the new entries be ok? i mean they entered for the 40mill budget cap and now that has been thrown out for another 2 years..

I suspect RBR and BMW will be the most support for the new entries, maybe even Mclaren. But these conditions should make them at least competitive in their own group.
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bg-ai3
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jul 29, 2009 7:52 am

not even bmw now, they are done with f1 after 2009

two marquee drivers just went free agent at the right time, with 3 new teams, and ferrari or mclaren looking for new pilots. kubica will land a seat definitely
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royleeiv
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jul 29, 2009 6:05 pm

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Luputtaja
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptyWed Jul 29, 2009 7:28 pm

royleeiv wrote:
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9703.html
yea there goes kimis races every time theyre on same country same time with schumacher kimi is having some issues with hes car Mad
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djcarney
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptySat Aug 22, 2009 5:24 pm

Mclaren back on form?
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bg-ai3
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PostSubject: Re: Current State of F1   Current State of F1 EmptySat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 am

fisi poles it at spa, interesting to find out car weight
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